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[News] AtheOSLink
Posted on 05-May-2000 12:17 GMT by Christian Kemp37 comments (26k)
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Did anybody on here hear about AtheOS, "a free operating system for the Intel architecture released under the GPL license"? I've been looking at the screenshots and see some familiarities...
 AtheOS : Comment 1 of 37
Posted by nyxordnA () on 05-May-2000
Q: The GUI look very Amigaish, is it an AmigaOS clone?

A: No. In the beginning it was actualy ment to be one, but this days there
is nothing resembling the AmigaOS in AtheOS other than the window-borders.
BTW: You can replace the boorder-look by writing a plugin to the appserver
so I guess the Amiga look will go away quite soon.

Oh well.

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 AtheOS : Comment 2 of 37
Posted by Martin Baute () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 1 (nyxordnA):
Ah, nothing of AmigaOS in it? But I see IconEdit there,
and obviously itīs using .icon files for GUI representation
of files.

I never saw this on something else than an Amiga. There might
be much difference, but they certainly got the inspiration
from the Amiga OS.

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 AtheOS : Comment 3 of 37
Posted by Kurt Skauen () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 2 (Martin Baute):
AtheOS does not use .icon files. The desktop manager is not very finnished, and use just a few hard-coded icons. The file-system support multiple (named) data streams, so that's where the icons go. The iconedit program indead write regular files, but the icon image will be written to a stream named "icon" in the executable (or whatever) file itself, not in an .info file.

Believe me, there is not one thing resembling the (classic) AmigaOS in AtheOS :)

Kurt Skauen.

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 AtheOS : Comment 4 of 37
Posted by Christian Kemp () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 3 (Kurt Skauen):
> Believe me, there is not one thing resembling the (classic) AmigaOS in AtheOS :)

Except the visual style of the user interface. The window border looks very much like a standard Workbench to me, as patched by VisualPrefs or something similar. At least that's the impression I get. :)

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 AtheOS : Comment 5 of 37
Posted by Kurt Skauen () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 4 (Christian Kemp):
Yes indead, the window borders looks alot like Amiga. If memory serves, I had something called "sysihack" installed on my Amiga when I used it (a looong time ago) that made the window borders look more "3D". The AtheOS (default) windows have almost identical borders. I don't think the rest of the GUI have the same style as the Amiga though. Then again, I have not run AmigaOS for loong time now.

The previous comment should have been:
Believe me, there is not one thing (except the window border-look) resembling the (classic) AmigaOS in AtheOS :)

sorry...

Kurt Skauen

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 AtheOS : Comment 6 of 37
Posted by Anonymous () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 5 (Kurt Skauen):
Itīs interesting that you still read Amiga news sites... :P

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 AtheOS : Comment 7 of 37
Posted by Kurt Skauen () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
hehe, I just happened to see the www.ann.lu address in the server log for www.atheos.cx. Did not know about this site until 30 minutes ago. You guys create a damn lot of traffic :)

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 AtheOS : Comment 8 of 37
Posted by Christian Kemp () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 7 (Kurt Skauen):
> hehe, I just happened to see the www.ann.lu address in the server log for
> www.atheos.cx. Did not know about this site until 30 minutes ago. You guys
> create a damn lot of traffic :)

This is not exactly Slashdot, hence you won't have a Slashdot effect, but at
over 2000 unique visitors a day I'll sure send some more people your way. :)

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 AtheOS : Comment 9 of 37
Posted by Kurt Skauen () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 8 (Christian Kemp):
: This is not exactly Slashdot, hence you won't have a Slashdot effect, but at
: over 2000 unique visitors a day I'll sure send some more people your way. :)
Thats for sure :) I had to rip the network-cable off the server before it run out of memory! Now I have limited the number of simultanous connections Apache will allow to try keeping it alive :)

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 AtheOS : Comment 10 of 37
Posted by Anonymous () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 5 (Kurt Skauen):
:Believe me, there is not one thing (except the window border-look) resembling :the (classic) AmigaOS in AtheOS :)

And the multiple "desktops" which can be any colour depth/res, and the "GUI is much more inegrated part of the OS than X-windows" and the general layout and style of the apps.

C'mon, talk about a look-and-feel lawsuit...

:^)

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 AtheOS : Comment 11 of 37
Posted by Kurt Skauen () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 10 (Anonymous):
: And the multiple "desktops" which can be any colour depth/res, and the "GUI is
: much more inegrated part of the OS than X-windows" and the general layout and
: style of the apps.

The Amiga does not have mutliple desktops, it have multiple screens, a totaly different story. In AtheOS you have a fixed number of desktops (32) where the user *not necesarily* the programs can arrange his windows. On the Amiga the program has to create it's own "screen" and then open it's own windows on it. The user can not (IIRC) set the screen mode on the different screens in a central configuration programs. Yes I know the Amiga have "public screens", and that a screen can be set to "changhai" windows, but AFAIK there is no way (for the user) to move a window from one screen to another.

BTW: It is now possible to write a plugin to the gui server and replace the border rendering, and thus make it look totaly non-Amiga :)

Kurt Skauen

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 AtheOS : Comment 12 of 37
Posted by nOw2 () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 11 (Kurt Skauen):
: Yes I know the Amiga have "public screens", and that a
: screen can be set to "changhai" windows, but AFAIK there is no way
: (for the user) to move a window from one screen to
: another.

You've described MUI.

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 AtheOS : Comment 13 of 37
Posted by Remco Komduur () on 05-May-2000
Haaa, very interresting!!!

AtheOS or should I say 'Amiga the Operating System'.

They could have chosen the name somewhat better and not some sad attempt to get Amiga users to join.

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 AtheOS : Comment 14 of 37
Posted by Kurt Skauen () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 12 (nOw2):
Ok. I was not aware that the user could move open windows between screens in MUI, I though MUI only controlled what was inside the window, not the screens (Found no indication of it in the feture list eighter). But I don't know enough about MUI to make some sane comment on this. From what I could tell from the MUI documentation MUI did not have a generic way to make hierarchial components (build a new GUI componenet by embedding other components inside it). It had something called groups, but as far as I could tell there was not possible to f.eks. inherit a spinner class from the group class that then created two arrow buttons and an edit box inside itself, and exporting a new "spinner" interface.

Kurt Skauen

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 AtheOS : Comment 15 of 37
Posted by Kelly Samel () on 05-May-2000
MUI allows the user to make any window you like appear
on it's own screen. You can have multiple MUI programs
on one screen if you like, and it automatically opens
the screen if not open already. Just have to look under
the prefs editor under "System/CallInspector" to set
this up quite easily. This works for ALL MUI apps.

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 AtheOS : Comment 16 of 37
Posted by Kurt Skauen () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 15 (Kelly Samel):
Still pritty far from the AtheOS GUI. In AtheOS you have a ScreenPrefs panel where you can configure the screen mode on each of the 32 desktop's. When you start a new app it will normaly open it's window on the current desktop. You can then change active desktop by hitting [ALT]+F1-F12 to select between the first 12 desktop's. If you "left-click" the window border the window will be moved to the new desktop. If you hold down both mouse buttons the window will be "cloned" and will be accessible at both desktops. Ie. you don't have to configure which window goes to which desktop, you just go to the right desktop before starting it, or move it there after it is started. I'm sure MUI is a greate GUI system, but it does not seem to look much like the AtheOS GUI. BTW, does MUI fix the windows so they can be move them partly outside the screen?

Kurt Skauen

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 AtheOS : Comment 17 of 37
Posted by Don Cox () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 16 (Kurt Skauen):
That sounds less usable than MUI to me. Why would you want to
open a program on the desktop screen first? It might be only 8-bit or
even 4-bit. Why can't the program have a setting for it's screen and
open the screen as needed?

And fixed numbers of anything are not a good idea. 32
screens/workspaces may sound like a lot, but anything with a fixed
limit sooner or later causes problems. Can't you have a linked list of
workspaces?

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 AtheOS : Comment 18 of 37
Posted by Kurt Skauen () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 17 (Don Cox):
There is no "desktop screen" all the desktop's are equal. Since a window can live on multiple desktops simultanously, the desktop-manager open it's window(the one with icons on) on all desktops. The reason for the limit is that a each window have a bit-mask telling which window it should be present on. Personally I have the first 8 or so desktops configured to the max resolution my monitor or gfx-adapter (whatever is the least) can handle, then I have some lower resolution's on the last desktops where I can check how a GUI component or app look in low-res (I dont have a "magnify" app for AtheOS :). My main point is that the philosophy behind this is substantial different from the philosophy behind the screens in AmigaOS. In AtheOS you move to another desktop when the current is full of windows, in AmigaOS a window lives on a separate screen when it needs a special screen-mode.

Oh, and remember that this don't run on Amiga hardware. 4-bit screen modes is not even supported by AtheOS.

Kurt Skauen

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 AtheOS : Comment 19 of 37
Posted by XybeX () on 05-May-2000
Sure looks "Amiga" to me, is this OS for real or is it a hoax?
Anyone tried it?

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 AtheOS : Comment 20 of 37
Posted by Anbjorn Myren () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 18 (Kurt Skauen):
:Still pritty far from the AtheOS GUI. In AtheOS you have a ScreenPrefs panel where you can configure the screen mode on each of the 32 desktop's.
:When you start a new app it will normaly open it's window on the current desktop. You can then change active desktop by hitting [ALT]+F1-F12 to select
:between the first 12 desktop's. If you "left-click" the window border the window will be moved to the new desktop. If you hold down both mouse buttons
:the window will be "cloned" and will be accessible at both desktops. Ie. you don't have to configure which window goes to which desktop, you just go to the
:right desktop before starting it, or move it there after it is started. I'm sure MUI is a greate GUI system, but it does not seem to look much like the AtheOS
:GUI. BTW, does MUI fix the windows so they can be move them partly outside the screen?

As you say, its probably far away from how MUI works, but there are still similarities:

- Comparing MUI-Prefs to ScreenPrefs, you can use MUIprefs to define public screens and their different
depths and resolutions.

- If maybe not as implemented with the F-keys, but there is no problem with opening a MUI program on one
screen and move it to another screen, or open a new one. You just change it in the MUI-settings for that
program and choose either to use or to save the new settings, and the program window opens on the selected
screen. Its only possible to have a window open on one screen at the time though. But if you really wants
have a program on two screens at the same time (I cant see why?), then why not run another copy of the
program (most amiga programs can be ran in as many copies simultaniously as you have memory for.
About the F-keys, I dont know if MUI-settings can be controlled by arexx ? If it can, you probably could
configure the F-keys to do this as well.

- In AmigaOS you cant drag windows outside the visible screen. But I wouldnt be any surpriced if you find
hack on aminet that lets you do just that. I havent looked for it. Simply cause I never missed that feature.
Sure if you run a low-res screensize it could be useful, but I think most Amigas in use today has gfx-cards
and use sensible resolutions anyway.

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 AtheOS : Comment 21 of 37
Posted by Roj () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 18 (Kurt Skauen):
Well, you're partially correct. When an app requires a certain screen mode, specific screens of differing resolutions may be used. However, I frequently run apps on the Workbench. When that fills up, I move them to their own screens on the fly. It's a very familiar concept.

If I need multiple desktops (haven't yet, but if I did) I could easily run multiple instances DOpus or ScalOS in addition to Workbench, or emulation on the PPC, or if I really need to, there's always Fusion and, sometime before the next blue moon, FusionPPC.

Those window borders though are just way too similar to AmigaOS. Perhaps if it included something along the lines of Birdie, things would look a little more like they belong in the year 2000.

Keep in mind that I haven't used a 4-bit screen mode in years on my A4000.

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 AtheOS : Comment 22 of 37
Posted by Kurt Skauen () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 20 (Anbjorn Myren):
:As you say, its probably far away from how MUI works, but there are still
:similarities:

Sure, just about all OS's with a GUI have similarities.

:- Comparing MUI-Prefs to ScreenPrefs, you can use MUIprefs to define public
: screens and their different depths and resolutions.
:
:- If maybe not as implemented with the F-keys, but there is no problem with
: opening a MUI program on one screen and move it to another screen, or open a
: new one. You just change it in the MUI-settings for that program and choose
: either to use or to save the new settings, and the program window opens on
: the selected screen.

So it is possible. Still sounds like to much hassel to be realy usefule though. I flip windows forth and back between desktops quite a lot when running AtheOS. If I had to run a tool to move it I propably whould'nt bother.

: Its only possible to have a window open on one screen at
: the time though. But if you really wants have a program on two screens at the
: same time (I cant see why?), then why not run another copy of the program

One example is the "desktop manager", do you have the WorkBench with all its icons available on all the screens in AmigaOS when running MUI? I also tend to clone the CPU-meter and memoryusage-meter to all the desktops I work on.

: (most amiga programs can be ran in as many copies simultaniously as you have
: memory for.

That's possible inded, waist some memory though. It actualy wast less memory in AtheOS since it will share the code-segment (and read-only parts of the data-segment) between instances of the same app.

: About the F-keys, I dont know if MUI-settings can be controlled
: by arexx ? If it can, you probably could configure the F-keys to do this as
: well.
:
:- In AmigaOS you cant drag windows outside the visible screen. But I wouldnt be
: any surpriced if you find hack on aminet that lets you do just that. I havent
: looked for it. Simply cause I never missed that feature. Sure if you run a
: low-res screensize it could be useful, but I think most Amigas in use today
: has gfx-cards and use sensible resolutions anyway.

Did not miss it to much eighter when I was running AmigaOS only, but I almost freaked out when I tried an Amiga again after getting used to this feature from other OS's :)


This seems to turn into a discussion about taste, and that sounds much like fighting against windmills to me :)


Kurt Skauen

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 AtheOS : Comment 23 of 37
Posted by XDelusion () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 15 (Kelly Samel):
And on top of all this, where it totally still blows away X for me, is the fact that you can go into each individual MUI app, and set it's prefs to open up win the same set window, every time! So you can shut your computer down if you wish, close what ever program, and not have to set and place things, here and there everytime!

Also, Amiga can too be made to look, and basically operate totally unlike the traditional, or default lay out of the OS, one of the best examples of that would be Dopus.

As for your icons, are they going to be as easy to manipulate and assign as with the Amiga OS, or is it giong to be tiresome, and tricky as with X, and Winblows (Which is about the only "Shared Time" OS remaining on the planet today.)

Either way, beyond the look, I am getting interested, maybe your people and our people could talk. Why not!?!? :O) I don't care it ain't classic Amiga OS, it shure as hell ain't going to run my classice Amiga programs, so I am just interested in it, because it is not Microshaft, who knows, maybe I will hate the Elate/Amiga OS thing, sounds awsome but I have not used it yet. :O( So I guess it is Linux and you for now!! :O)

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 AtheOS : Comment 24 of 37
Posted by XDelusion () on 05-May-2000
Um one question, how do you install it again!? :O)

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 AtheOS : Comment 25 of 37
Posted by Kurt Skauen () on 05-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 23 (XDelusion):
:As for your icons, are they going to be as easy to manipulate and assign as
:with the Amiga OS, or is it giong to be tiresome, and tricky as with X, and
:Winblows (Which is about the only "Shared Time" OS remaining on the planet
:today.)

It should be easy to manipulate the icons, since they are part of the file they represent. No need for a database, or .info files to keep track of them. Just make an icon in an icon-editor and copy it into a correctly named stream in the file you want the icon to represent. Editing the icon of an existing file can eighter be supported by the icon editor, so it fetches it from the files attributes directly, or you can use a shell-tool to copy the icon attribute to a regular file, edit it and copy it back in. When you move a file the icon will automatically follow, since it is part of the file.


:Either way, beyond the look, I am getting interested, maybe your people and our
:people could talk. Why not!?!? :O)

I'm for sure not looking for a war :)

Not sure if this is the right media for this discussion though. Feel free to join the mailing-list if you whould like to follow the development of AtheOS.

:I don't care it ain't classic Amiga OS, it
:shure as hell ain't going to run my classice Amiga programs, so I am just
:interested in it, because it is not Microshaft, who knows, maybe I will hate
:the Elate/Amiga OS thing, sounds awsome but I have not used it yet. :O( So I
:guess it is Linux and you for now!! :O)

Who know's, maybe someone will port UAE to it some time :)

Kurt Skauen

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 AtheOS : Comment 26 of 37
Posted by Anonymous () on 05-May-2000
looks alot more like beos with the amiga "theme" on it than amiga os does.
can't belive noone saw this before i did :)

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 AtheOS : Comment 27 of 37
Posted by Victor () on 06-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 22 (Kurt Skauen):
. :- In AmigaOS you cant drag windows outside the visible screen. But I wouldnt be
. : any surpriced if you find hack on aminet that lets you do just that. I havent
. : looked for it. Simply cause I never missed that feature. Sure if you run a
. : low-res screensize it could be useful, but I think most Amigas in use today
. : has gfx-cards and use sensible resolutions anyway.
.
. Did not miss it to much eighter when I was running AmigaOS only, but I almost . freaked out when I tried an Amiga again after getting used to this feature from other OS's :)

There is a utility called PowerWindows that makes it possible by a simple trick. I used it for years without problems. BTW, I wonder why it wasn't in the OS originally, as everything is there for it. (Layers, etc.)

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 AtheOS : Comment 28 of 37
Posted by Paul May () on 06-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 26 (Anonymous):
look people, whats with the negative comp.sys.amiga.misc style attitude
regarding Kurt`s OS.

please stop and think people, as yet i`v not had time to look at it
in any great detail, but its people such as Kurt that can help make
a difference to the alt OS movement going on right now.

in that regard and with his willingness to participate here so far
i have as a Phoenix Core Member, have asked that he consider joining Phoenix
and perhaps start working in co-operation with other Phx members to
extend his and their options.

if anything comes of this email request, i`m sure everyone will be very pleased
with its possible outcome, not least you readers.

more news if and when it becomes available.

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 AtheOS : Comment 29 of 37
Posted by Georg Steger () on 06-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 27 (Victor):
:. :- In AmigaOS you cant drag windows outside the visible screen. But I wouldnt be
:. : any surpriced if you find hack on aminet that lets you do just that. I havent
:. : looked for it. Simply cause I never missed that feature. Sure if you run a
:. : low-res screensize it could be useful, but I think most Amigas in use today
:. : has gfx-cards and use sensible resolutions anyway.
:.
:. Did not miss it to much eighter when I was running AmigaOS only, but I almost
:. freaked out when I tried an
:Amiga again after getting used to this feature from other OS's :)
:
:There is a utility called PowerWindows that makes it possible by a simple trick.
:I used it for years without problems. BTW, I wonder why it wasn't in the OS
:originally, as everything is there for it. (Layers, etc.)

BTW: The PowerWindows version on Aminet still used a very bad hack to disable
Intuition's "dont allow windows to be dragged outside screen" routine. It also
only allowed windows to be dragged out of screen at the right and bottom screen
edge.

There is a newer version (and anyway already some years old) which directly
patches the ROM (BlizKick module or patch a kick file on hd which is then
used with a ROM kick utility). This version if a lot faster and safier and
also allows windows to be dragged out of screen on all edges of the screen
like in all other OSes.

PowerWindows also uses out-of-screen moving to implement its iconfying
(or better minimizing) feature. Iconfied windows are simply moved completely
out of screen. This way every window can be iconified.

Unfortunately only very few people registered to PowerWindows so this
version was never released, only the registered people have it. Also
development of PowerWindows has stopped since long time.

It would have been very easy to add virtual desktop support like in X
or AtheOS (? except for different resolutions) where windows could
also be in all virtual desktops at the same time if one wanted.
Each Amiga screen could have had its own virtual desktops.

Maybe there'll be something like this (but without patches, instead
a better layers.library) in AROS ;-)

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 AtheOS : Comment 30 of 37
Posted by Anonymous () on 06-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 29 (Georg Steger):
Isn't there any way to get it released? It's important enough that the author should consider to pass it away for free if once he doesn't make any money with it anymore. === Are there others who think the same? ===

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 AtheOS : Comment 31 of 37
Posted by Eric () on 06-May-2000
At first glance Atheos does look like an Amiga...the blue/grey color
scheme, the look and position of the window icons, the OS3.5-esque
icons, the Xen-like font.... But on closer inspection it looks like a
cross between Amiga, Windows, and Mac. :)

--Eric

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 AtheOS : Comment 32 of 37
Posted by nOw2 () on 06-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 14 (Kurt Skauen):
:Ok. I was not aware that the user could move open windows between
:screens in MUI, I though MUI only controlled what was inside the
:window, not the screens (Found no indication of it in the feture list
:eighter). But I don't know enough about MUI to make some sane

The PSI gives the user control and internal methods give the
programmer optional control.

:comment on this. From what I could tell from the MUI documentation
:MUI did not have a generic way to make hierarchial components (build
:a new GUI componenet by embedding other components inside it). It had

Actually, MUI custom classes?

:something called groups, but as far as I could tell there was not
:possible to f.eks. inherit a spinner class from the group class that
:then created two arrow buttons and an edit box inside itself, and
:exporting a new "spinner"

This is perfectly possible.

MUI is a fully object orientated system, components can inherit
properties from other classes etc.etc. Look in any MUI:Libs/MUI/
directory. You'll probably see everything from better string classes
to HTML classes.

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 AtheOS : Comment 33 of 37
Posted by Nathaniel Downes () on 06-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 30 (Anonymous):
AtheOS is GPL'd, just like Linux. You can do with it the same as what has been done with Linux time and time again. Come on, get with the program.

Of course AtheOS looks better done than Linux, in theory. I do not know in practice however.

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 AtheOS : Comment 34 of 37
Posted by Paul Manias () on 07-May-2000
Let's be serious, if you want an Amiga GUI then this pales in comparison to the one at www.rocklyte.com, which unashamedly supports authentic Amiga gadgets and draggable screens.

No doubt I'm bias but the picture speaks for itself.

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 AtheOS : Comment 35 of 37
Posted by Anonymous () on 07-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 33 (Nathaniel Downes):
Comment#30 was a reply to Comment#29 mentioning a 'new' version of PowerWindows.

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 AtheOS : Comment 36 of 37
Posted by Cartman () on 08-May-2000
Hum... This OS looks kinda cool. :) Keep'em coming, we want a myriad of choices of OS's to install. Win2000, 98, 95, Millennium, NT4, BeOS, Linux, Neutrino, AtheOS, Solaris blablablablablablabla... Which to choose?!!! eeek!
;)

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 AtheOS : Comment 37 of 37
Posted by Ryan Abrams () on 23-May-2000
In Reply to Comment 34 (Paul Manias):
It may look amiga-like, but those are stolen BeOS icons if I have ever seen them....

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